Anne, I'm sincerely grateful that you plough through these awful books that must make you feel like taking a mental shower afterwards, and for your faithfulness in elucidating the major problems in a clear way that all can understand. It frees me up to read the good ones, but I do confess to eagerly seeing your take on the heresy of the season, knowing you'll eventually get to them.
In addition to all that terrible and and hateful heresy, I am quite gobsmacked that people are being this casual at the idea of God changing His mind, and apparently not even having had foreknowledge before this that He would do so. I mean, this is an even bigger and more central Christian doctrine to jettison than sexual morality. Of course it's not surprising that once you start throwing over one true doctrine, you have to throw over others, but wow.
I haven't read the book. I may get to it at some point. I have read reviews that say the argument is predicated on the idea of a God who changes. If that's the case, then it's a non-starter. A God who changes can't be perfect. Either God was less and became more, or more and became less. Either way, you have a deviation from God's perfection. Divine immutability is one of the classical attributes of God, and I'm not willing to give up on the God of Christian orthodoxy.
The underlying assumption that we are good is their first mistake, and one that they seem oblivious to. To assume that two consenting adults with sexual desires which need expressing is always a good thing is folly. The truth is we all have lots of sexual desires. It's the expression of them which becomes problematic, if we are to believe the scriptures.
OT unfaithfulness showed up as worshipping Baal (male phallic) and female Ashteroths. The temple worship must have seemed exciting until the demonic accusations, disease, fear set in. Then more illicit stuff was needed to drown this out.
Didn’t mean to push post yet) to GOD means faithfulness to not commit adultery with Him, He promises to lead to freedom! John 8:31-36
So, none of this is new, but thinking like this can help us see God really loves us, to put boundaries around the wonderful gifts He has given us, which can get out of whack: Even good food, alcohol, etc.
Getting free can be difficult, but the peace and joy are worth it—abundant life indeed! Romans 1:16-2:4 remind us of the Way down and Back!
"Write me a book-length treatise that explains contra 2000 years of Christian orthodoxy, why my favorite sins are now okay. Maybe used something about the widening mercy of God in there somewhere."
"If harming human beings can ever be justified, it is only in the interest of avoiding greater harm ..."
Defacing the image of God in humans is a greater harm, and blasphemy against God even greater than that. Nobody ever seems to account for the "harm" done to God's holy name.
I'm guessing that abortion was in their minds when they spoke of Molech; they just studiously avoided making the connection. I remember in the mid-1980s, I used to picket abortion clinics with a "Stop Feeding Molech" sign. It was homemade, with magic markers, and the red/orange/yellow flames were actually quite good. I don't have a photo of my sign, because you had to use actual photographic film in those days, and send it out to the drug store to be developed. And, depending on who was working in the drugstore photo operation, they might well turn you into The Authorities.
I was also a bit alarmed at the implicit message that, "If we could only get the suicide attempt rate for 'sexual minorities' down to 6% like the regular kids, then everything will be hunky-dory!" No mention of the societal unmooring from Christianity that contributed to the 6% figure. It makes me think that what the authors REALLY object to is not teens offing themselves, but the horrible inequity in the rates. Sexual perverts deserve, I imagine they would say, to have their rate at 6% just like other folks!
I particularly appreciate this bit of your reflection here:
"Observe how Drs. Hays and Hays know what God should do and what would be best for this world. It’s like, I don’t know, it’s like Dr and Dr. Hays have put themselves into the place of God to judge good from evil."
This is exactly the temptation offered by the serpent in the Garden of Eden, to question/reject God's goodness and to take His place as judges of good and evil.
Colossians 2:4 also comes to mind: "I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments."
I agree with you about the use of the word "harm" as well. One of those words that has become loaded with a host of therapeutic assumptions and subjective definitions.
I'm skeptical about the supposedly high rates of suicide for gay teens. Our entire popular culture celebrates them! And it does so endlessly. If the reported suicide rates are true, then that would mean that the popular culture doesn't really have much influence or impact which seems unfathomable to me.
It seems to me that if the suicide rates of gay, trans ( and alphabet soup) teens is true, and the fact that they are so widely celebrated in our culture, it proves the fundamental unhappiness of people who engage in these aberrant sexual practices.
Not only that, but it's a non-sequitur to move from the claim of the higher rates of suicide to the conclusion that the cause must be non-acceptance of their sexual desires.
Anne, I'm sincerely grateful that you plough through these awful books that must make you feel like taking a mental shower afterwards, and for your faithfulness in elucidating the major problems in a clear way that all can understand. It frees me up to read the good ones, but I do confess to eagerly seeing your take on the heresy of the season, knowing you'll eventually get to them.
In addition to all that terrible and and hateful heresy, I am quite gobsmacked that people are being this casual at the idea of God changing His mind, and apparently not even having had foreknowledge before this that He would do so. I mean, this is an even bigger and more central Christian doctrine to jettison than sexual morality. Of course it's not surprising that once you start throwing over one true doctrine, you have to throw over others, but wow.
If only there had been some doctrine established like say, I don't know, the Immutability of God ...
I haven't read the book. I may get to it at some point. I have read reviews that say the argument is predicated on the idea of a God who changes. If that's the case, then it's a non-starter. A God who changes can't be perfect. Either God was less and became more, or more and became less. Either way, you have a deviation from God's perfection. Divine immutability is one of the classical attributes of God, and I'm not willing to give up on the God of Christian orthodoxy.
The underlying assumption that we are good is their first mistake, and one that they seem oblivious to. To assume that two consenting adults with sexual desires which need expressing is always a good thing is folly. The truth is we all have lots of sexual desires. It's the expression of them which becomes problematic, if we are to believe the scriptures.
Yes.
OT unfaithfulness showed up as worshipping Baal (male phallic) and female Ashteroths. The temple worship must have seemed exciting until the demonic accusations, disease, fear set in. Then more illicit stuff was needed to drown this out.
When we understand faithfulness
Didn’t mean to push post yet) to GOD means faithfulness to not commit adultery with Him, He promises to lead to freedom! John 8:31-36
So, none of this is new, but thinking like this can help us see God really loves us, to put boundaries around the wonderful gifts He has given us, which can get out of whack: Even good food, alcohol, etc.
Getting free can be difficult, but the peace and joy are worth it—abundant life indeed! Romans 1:16-2:4 remind us of the Way down and Back!
Adultery is adulteration. When worship or loves get mixed
The Hays read like something an undereducated, know it all High School Sophomore would write.
Maybe they used ChatGPT to help them write this?
"Write me a book-length treatise that explains contra 2000 years of Christian orthodoxy, why my favorite sins are now okay. Maybe used something about the widening mercy of God in there somewhere."
"If harming human beings can ever be justified, it is only in the interest of avoiding greater harm ..."
Defacing the image of God in humans is a greater harm, and blasphemy against God even greater than that. Nobody ever seems to account for the "harm" done to God's holy name.
I'm guessing that abortion was in their minds when they spoke of Molech; they just studiously avoided making the connection. I remember in the mid-1980s, I used to picket abortion clinics with a "Stop Feeding Molech" sign. It was homemade, with magic markers, and the red/orange/yellow flames were actually quite good. I don't have a photo of my sign, because you had to use actual photographic film in those days, and send it out to the drug store to be developed. And, depending on who was working in the drugstore photo operation, they might well turn you into The Authorities.
I was also a bit alarmed at the implicit message that, "If we could only get the suicide attempt rate for 'sexual minorities' down to 6% like the regular kids, then everything will be hunky-dory!" No mention of the societal unmooring from Christianity that contributed to the 6% figure. It makes me think that what the authors REALLY object to is not teens offing themselves, but the horrible inequity in the rates. Sexual perverts deserve, I imagine they would say, to have their rate at 6% just like other folks!
I particularly appreciate this bit of your reflection here:
"Observe how Drs. Hays and Hays know what God should do and what would be best for this world. It’s like, I don’t know, it’s like Dr and Dr. Hays have put themselves into the place of God to judge good from evil."
This is exactly the temptation offered by the serpent in the Garden of Eden, to question/reject God's goodness and to take His place as judges of good and evil.
Colossians 2:4 also comes to mind: "I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments."
I agree with you about the use of the word "harm" as well. One of those words that has become loaded with a host of therapeutic assumptions and subjective definitions.
I'm skeptical about the supposedly high rates of suicide for gay teens. Our entire popular culture celebrates them! And it does so endlessly. If the reported suicide rates are true, then that would mean that the popular culture doesn't really have much influence or impact which seems unfathomable to me.
It seems to me that if the suicide rates of gay, trans ( and alphabet soup) teens is true, and the fact that they are so widely celebrated in our culture, it proves the fundamental unhappiness of people who engage in these aberrant sexual practices.
Not only that, but it's a non-sequitur to move from the claim of the higher rates of suicide to the conclusion that the cause must be non-acceptance of their sexual desires.
It might mean the leaders don’t really care about those people. Who are getting ruined? Why?