"Young people would have to have children again, *and society would have to be ok with that happening.* And the best way for them to have children would be for them to get married." I was talking about this with a 27 year old friend who is going to marry soon. She has an amazing career in classical music moving on an upward trajectory, but she and her husband to be want children. As a 55 year old mother of four, I told her that there is no better time to have children than when one is younger. It is easier physically and emotionally. She then asked me how old I was when our last was born. Just under 31. Her eyes got large. Our culture pushes "getting comfortable" before having children. Newsflash: Having children isn't comfortable. Children are quintessentially disruptive. And this disruption is good for us. We learn how much we need God, our spouse, and our extended family (both biological and spiritual) to meet our children's needs. I believe it is almost impossible to fully grasp how selfish one is until one is a parent. It will either make us better people through humbling us, or our hearts will be hardened as we refuse to put others before ourselves.
I am praying for your friend's suffering to be for the benefit of others until she dies in the flesh and for you and your community to be comforted as you mourn. May these "momentary light afflictions," inform you for your presentation and conform you to His image.
I believe it is almost impossible to fully grasp how selfish one is until one is a parent. It will either make us better people through humbling us, or our hearts will be hardened as we refuse to put others before ourselves.
"Louise Perry explains to Bari Weiss how she reverse-engineered the Biblical Sexual Ethic."
This reminds me so much of a passage in Chesterton's "Orthodoxy":
"I freely confess all the idiotic ambitions of the end of the nineteenth century. I did, like all other solemn little boys, try to be in advance of the age. Like them I tried to be some ten minutes in advance of the truth. And I found that I was eighteen hundred years behind it. I did strain my voice with a painfully juvenile exaggeration in uttering my truths. And I was punished in the fittest and funniest way, for I have kept my truths: but I have discovered, not that they were not truths, but simply that they were not mine. When I fancied that I stood alone I was really in the ridiculous position of being backed up by all Christendom. It may be, Heaven forgive me, that I did try to be original; but I only succeeded in inventing all by myself an inferior copy of the existing traditions of civilized religion. The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
I don’t think we realized how counter-cultural we were being when we got married at 25 and started having children at 28. People are amazed when I say we have 3 children and my oldest is 17. We have witnessed many friends start late and struggle with fertility, compounding expenses in the entire birth process, etc.. Growing up with a mother and sister as midwives, with babies being born two rooms down from mine nearly daily, in a city that has an exponential population growth curve, it is hard to reconcile myself to the notion of population decline, and one wonders how quickly the conversion from an immigrant culture to a western mindset of older marriage, older starting point to attempt pregnancy sets in. 1 generation? And it seems that the west has the knack for exporting some of our worst ideologies such as materialism and obsessive individuality, while simultaneously condemning any culture as immoral that attempts to insist on community.
"...people need help to find someone to marry, and that courtships should be brief and chaste."
This is the part of the post that really struck me. I really think society should have arranged marriages. Not arranged as in forced, but families would help set it up. This individualistic approach that society has embraced is extremely punishing for those who aren't extroverts. I think people should marry with the idea that love comes later. The problem with our current need to "fall in love" during the courtship phase is that very few men have the ability to create that feeling in a woman, at least initially. There was a reality show, Married at First Sight, in which couples would marry but wouldn't meet or know what the other looked like until the day of the wedding. One woman was devasted on her wedding day because she didn't find the man she married to be attractive. Yet a year later, she eventually did fall in love with him. If only we could allow love to come later.
Left this in response to one below, but think it figures well here too.
Have wondered if so many kids have been hurt, by parent’s distraction, distresses, divorce, and the churches failures to seek to understand and support them but rather to cause divorces or take children, the lack of due processes in culture, perverting justice, and unspoken fears of tainted food, water, meds and their hormones, that Jesus’ words, in Luke 21:23 seem reasonable, even wise.
It seems there are two tracks with this topic. Cultural views towards marriage/children, and how Christian parents/the church teach & direct children and youth. Reversing the culture seems like rowing after the canoe has careened over a waterfall. Churches and Christian parents have varied in how they approach. I heard lessons in my 20s from 1 Corinthians 7 teaching it is better to remain single. Then one starts questioning one’s motives, etc. Just an example of the well intended but sometimes confusing stuff out there. Throw in teachings from Bill Gothard, immanence of the 2nd coming, and who knows what went on in Christian colleges it’s no wonder there was confusion. I think many churches did better and others are now focusing on young families. Even in the church it often takes a generation or two to have significant reform and as the salt of the earth that is our imperative. I’m certainly no expert but much prayer for reform and knowledge that throughout history God works through imperfect saints to bring about His plans is encouragement. Prayers for Anne & Matt.
"The observation that the IV debate shows what kind of children society finds especially valuable—those of rich, educated, older people. Very young people having children is scary and therefore guarded against by all right-minded people."
So, basically, we have eugenics again, but with a more subtly respectable presentation. But as the saying goes, "What can't go on forever won't." Reality always wins in the end.
There are two cultural markers which distinguish a people that believe in the future. They are having kids, and emigrating. It's no coincidence that Americans, who no longer believe in the future, hate both.
Americans still pray the Lord's prayer out of habit... "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", but we don't really believe it, or we'd be doing his will... multiplying.
The situation is better in the undeveloped world. We haven't missionized them sufficiently to inculcate unbelief on the same scale there, as we have among ourselves. Therefore they're still having kids.
Idolatry also makes us unfruitful. When social security, America's equivalent of the Corban gift which Jesus condemned, was invented, life expectancies and replacement rates were very different. At the time we created that idol, America still believed in the future. But God numbs our brains when we insist on worshiping idols. So we start infantilizing our teenagers, preventing them from marrying, kicking out dirty brown people, etc.
And, before you know it, we find out, lo and behold, we are too unfruitful and idolatrous to be able to sustain things like social security.
God's very first command to mankind, before he issued any other moral directives, was to be productive and multiply. We hate that command even more than we hate all the other ones. We do our best to disobey him and teach others to disobey him.
Have wondered if so many kids have been hurt, by parent’s distraction, distresses, divorce, and the churches failures to seek to understand and support them but rather to cause divorces or take children, the lack of due processes in culture, perverting justice, and unspoken fears of tainted food, water, meds and their hormones, that Jesus’ words, in Luke 21:23 seem reasonable, even wise.
In light of your kids being sick, a long-time member and friend being put on hospice, an elbow that hurts and getting packed, thanks for thinking of your readers and posting, "Human Withering." I deeply appreciate your profound insights and thoughtful analysis in all your articles. I am quite confident the Lord will give you the message they need to hear at the conference. Travelling mercies. You have my prayers and I'm sure everyone else who follows you. Blessings
Thanks for the clear and direct writing, Anne. My brief prayer for you was that the Holy Spirit will give you comfort and renew your abiding with Christ.
"Young people would have to have children again, *and society would have to be ok with that happening.* And the best way for them to have children would be for them to get married." I was talking about this with a 27 year old friend who is going to marry soon. She has an amazing career in classical music moving on an upward trajectory, but she and her husband to be want children. As a 55 year old mother of four, I told her that there is no better time to have children than when one is younger. It is easier physically and emotionally. She then asked me how old I was when our last was born. Just under 31. Her eyes got large. Our culture pushes "getting comfortable" before having children. Newsflash: Having children isn't comfortable. Children are quintessentially disruptive. And this disruption is good for us. We learn how much we need God, our spouse, and our extended family (both biological and spiritual) to meet our children's needs. I believe it is almost impossible to fully grasp how selfish one is until one is a parent. It will either make us better people through humbling us, or our hearts will be hardened as we refuse to put others before ourselves.
I am praying for your friend's suffering to be for the benefit of others until she dies in the flesh and for you and your community to be comforted as you mourn. May these "momentary light afflictions," inform you for your presentation and conform you to His image.
Love this:
I believe it is almost impossible to fully grasp how selfish one is until one is a parent. It will either make us better people through humbling us, or our hearts will be hardened as we refuse to put others before ourselves.
"Louise Perry explains to Bari Weiss how she reverse-engineered the Biblical Sexual Ethic."
This reminds me so much of a passage in Chesterton's "Orthodoxy":
"I freely confess all the idiotic ambitions of the end of the nineteenth century. I did, like all other solemn little boys, try to be in advance of the age. Like them I tried to be some ten minutes in advance of the truth. And I found that I was eighteen hundred years behind it. I did strain my voice with a painfully juvenile exaggeration in uttering my truths. And I was punished in the fittest and funniest way, for I have kept my truths: but I have discovered, not that they were not truths, but simply that they were not mine. When I fancied that I stood alone I was really in the ridiculous position of being backed up by all Christendom. It may be, Heaven forgive me, that I did try to be original; but I only succeeded in inventing all by myself an inferior copy of the existing traditions of civilized religion. The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
I don’t think we realized how counter-cultural we were being when we got married at 25 and started having children at 28. People are amazed when I say we have 3 children and my oldest is 17. We have witnessed many friends start late and struggle with fertility, compounding expenses in the entire birth process, etc.. Growing up with a mother and sister as midwives, with babies being born two rooms down from mine nearly daily, in a city that has an exponential population growth curve, it is hard to reconcile myself to the notion of population decline, and one wonders how quickly the conversion from an immigrant culture to a western mindset of older marriage, older starting point to attempt pregnancy sets in. 1 generation? And it seems that the west has the knack for exporting some of our worst ideologies such as materialism and obsessive individuality, while simultaneously condemning any culture as immoral that attempts to insist on community.
"...people need help to find someone to marry, and that courtships should be brief and chaste."
This is the part of the post that really struck me. I really think society should have arranged marriages. Not arranged as in forced, but families would help set it up. This individualistic approach that society has embraced is extremely punishing for those who aren't extroverts. I think people should marry with the idea that love comes later. The problem with our current need to "fall in love" during the courtship phase is that very few men have the ability to create that feeling in a woman, at least initially. There was a reality show, Married at First Sight, in which couples would marry but wouldn't meet or know what the other looked like until the day of the wedding. One woman was devasted on her wedding day because she didn't find the man she married to be attractive. Yet a year later, she eventually did fall in love with him. If only we could allow love to come later.
"I really think society should have arranged marriages. Not arranged as in forced, but families would help set it up."
This is how I found my wife. And, after 39 years of bliss being married to her, I have to say that it worked out very well.
Left this in response to one below, but think it figures well here too.
Have wondered if so many kids have been hurt, by parent’s distraction, distresses, divorce, and the churches failures to seek to understand and support them but rather to cause divorces or take children, the lack of due processes in culture, perverting justice, and unspoken fears of tainted food, water, meds and their hormones, that Jesus’ words, in Luke 21:23 seem reasonable, even wise.
It seems there are two tracks with this topic. Cultural views towards marriage/children, and how Christian parents/the church teach & direct children and youth. Reversing the culture seems like rowing after the canoe has careened over a waterfall. Churches and Christian parents have varied in how they approach. I heard lessons in my 20s from 1 Corinthians 7 teaching it is better to remain single. Then one starts questioning one’s motives, etc. Just an example of the well intended but sometimes confusing stuff out there. Throw in teachings from Bill Gothard, immanence of the 2nd coming, and who knows what went on in Christian colleges it’s no wonder there was confusion. I think many churches did better and others are now focusing on young families. Even in the church it often takes a generation or two to have significant reform and as the salt of the earth that is our imperative. I’m certainly no expert but much prayer for reform and knowledge that throughout history God works through imperfect saints to bring about His plans is encouragement. Prayers for Anne & Matt.
"The observation that the IV debate shows what kind of children society finds especially valuable—those of rich, educated, older people. Very young people having children is scary and therefore guarded against by all right-minded people."
So, basically, we have eugenics again, but with a more subtly respectable presentation. But as the saying goes, "What can't go on forever won't." Reality always wins in the end.
There are two cultural markers which distinguish a people that believe in the future. They are having kids, and emigrating. It's no coincidence that Americans, who no longer believe in the future, hate both.
Americans still pray the Lord's prayer out of habit... "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", but we don't really believe it, or we'd be doing his will... multiplying.
The situation is better in the undeveloped world. We haven't missionized them sufficiently to inculcate unbelief on the same scale there, as we have among ourselves. Therefore they're still having kids.
Idolatry also makes us unfruitful. When social security, America's equivalent of the Corban gift which Jesus condemned, was invented, life expectancies and replacement rates were very different. At the time we created that idol, America still believed in the future. But God numbs our brains when we insist on worshiping idols. So we start infantilizing our teenagers, preventing them from marrying, kicking out dirty brown people, etc.
And, before you know it, we find out, lo and behold, we are too unfruitful and idolatrous to be able to sustain things like social security.
God's very first command to mankind, before he issued any other moral directives, was to be productive and multiply. We hate that command even more than we hate all the other ones. We do our best to disobey him and teach others to disobey him.
Have wondered if so many kids have been hurt, by parent’s distraction, distresses, divorce, and the churches failures to seek to understand and support them but rather to cause divorces or take children, the lack of due processes in culture, perverting justice, and unspoken fears of tainted food, water, meds and their hormones, that Jesus’ words, in Luke 21:23 seem reasonable, even wise.
In light of your kids being sick, a long-time member and friend being put on hospice, an elbow that hurts and getting packed, thanks for thinking of your readers and posting, "Human Withering." I deeply appreciate your profound insights and thoughtful analysis in all your articles. I am quite confident the Lord will give you the message they need to hear at the conference. Travelling mercies. You have my prayers and I'm sure everyone else who follows you. Blessings
Thanks for the clear and direct writing, Anne. My brief prayer for you was that the Holy Spirit will give you comfort and renew your abiding with Christ.
Your writing is a treasure - and these audio readings are always a plus.
Also, blessings on you and your family. May you be protected, as covered with Jesus blood and cleansed, healed, renewed.
Praying for you this week, Anne.
Praying for you and your children that are sick. 🙏
I hope your circumstances do not strike you down completely, and I’m praying for you and your family! 🙏